Friday, February 17, 2006

Ban child victim testimony in sex abuse cases!

A mandatory minimum bill for 25 years for first degree child rape has just passed the Washington house and senate, and the governor is expected to sign it. However, it includes such a large exception and loophole that Schwarzenegger's hummer could drive though it. The 25 year minimum excludes any convict where the sex convict is known to the victim. This law and its exception were featured on O'’Reilly Factor and Bill was scratching his head about this exception, as many of us are.

The rationalization behind this exception is that the child victim would never testify against his family member if the victim was informed that his testimony would cause his abuser to receive a very long or life sentence. Tracy has written an excellent post on this blog, analyzing a likely scenario where this situation would likely occur, and under what circumstances.
Upon examination we find that if the evidence is strong and the prosecutor has been diligent in gathering this evidence, then he would have no need to further burden the child victim by requiring any testimony from him. As Tracy points out. "“If the prosecutors and cops have gathered their evidence and have done their job then they don't need that kid to testify and even if the kid does testify, the testimony will either uphold the evidence or it won't!"

If any case absolutely depends upon such child victim testimony, then either the available evidence is too weak to convict without such testimony, or the prosecutor is lazy and/or incompetent. This is a situation where the accused is most likely to be innocent because there is so little evidence, and the prosecution is tempted to plea bargain to avoid a trial. But without a trial, there is no true justice. It becomes a mere negotiated settlement between the accused and the prosecutor, and completely violates the principle of being presumed innocent until proven guilty. It casts aside both the truth and facts as irrelevant as to whether the accused is innocent or guilty. Either the accused receives too lenient a sentence if he is guilty, or he gets an unjust sentence if he is innocent.

Another grievous miscarriage of justice can and has frequently occurred where the child is coached to testify against an accused person for the purpose of justifying more tax revenue budgeting for Child Protective Services. This situation actually occurred in Wenatchee, Washington in 1992 -1995, also known as the Wenatchee Witch Hunt. There was not a shred of hard evidence to support any of these false allegations against these innocent people, but there was plenty of coerced and manipulated child testimony.

This created one of the most wicked injustices ever perpetrated against innocent defenseless citizens who were unable to fight back against this monster Wenatchee Detective Perez and his CPS accomplices, who should also be put away for a life sentence for their crimes of fraud, extortion, witness tampering, perjury, conspiracy, racketeering, kidnapping, false arrest with no warrant or probable cause, and false imprisonment against the innocent; not to mention several counts of constitutional violations. Their crimes are just as serious as the known false charges that they brought against the innocent, and they should face the same sentence for these false charges that they sought to bring against these innocents. They have yet to face a criminal trial and the appropriate sentence for their crimes.

What I am proposing here is a change in judicial codes and statutes that would ban the use of any child ( age 12 or under ) victim testimony as admissible evidence. What would this do?

1. It would prevent the Wenatchee Witch Hunt scenario from ever happening again.

2. The sex offender bureaucrats, lawyers and detectives could never use or manipulate the child victim as a pawn for testimony, and thus would greatly reduce the frequency of plea bargains, most of which occur solely because of child witness testimony.

3. These same sex offender profiteers could never argue for a "“friends and family discount"” exclusion from any mandatory minimum or life sentence, and it would thereby remove this ridiculous excuse for light sentencing of family members under Special Sex Offender Sentencing Alternatives aka SSOSA. Any given case would more likely either go to trial or be dropped entirely.

4. Another effect of this change is that it would increase support for a one strike law among citizens that are justifiably concerned about false accusations from overzealous prosecutors using coached child witnesses and rushing to judgment. Because of those very real fears many do not support a one strike law, and the elimination of this great source of prosecutorial abuse would assure these citizens of the essential justice and necessary protection of a one strike law, and cause them to support it.

There are probably many other points that could be presented to support this proposal, and there may be some points against it that would need to be considered. Let me know what your thoughts are, and any other questions or scenarios that should be considered regarding this proposal.

Robin Hood

22 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

I have restrained myself from posting this for far too long. I know you will probably not allow this comment to go on your blog, but I am not alone in these opinions and I believe it is about time someone brought it up. Please address these issues! Many of us are watching and waiting.

How does Steve Groene feel about your naming this after his son? You don't know, because you didn't seek or obtain his permission. You're just another fly-by-night organization seeking notoriety on the backs of victims. Leave Dylan out of this. Your motivations are suspect to me, and to many others. We wish you would not fly Dylan up your flag pole like this and torture him all over again. Please stop and think about what you are doing and have a little regard for the victims here.

I can't believe you wrote to Duncan and posted his letter here as some twisted kind of learning exercise. Then you pat yourself on the back on crime forums and expect us to believe it. Don't you know you are just giving him what he wants? You are feeding the ego of this vile monster and giving him exactly the attention he thinks he deserves!

This crime has bothered me so much since it was all over the news. I am on the other side of the country from CDA but I turned to the internet for information instead of relying on what little TV news I was seeing about this case in my area. I am limited in what I can do to help for financial, physical and geographical limitations, and I had hoped I could get behind an organization like yours with my full support.

I can't do that, not when your organization has so little heart, and for all the wrong reasons.

These are my opinions, but know that they are shared by others. I would hope you will allow them to remain in your comments so that discussion may follow. I hope to read your reasonings behind posting Duncan letters and naming this after Dylan Groene.

Signed,
Concerned mother on the east coast

5:17 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

1:22 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

My entire office just read your post and we are all disgusted. Are you sticking up for child molesters? It sounds that way to us. I do have some choice words for you; however, this is not place to express them. I prefer face-to-face.

7:59 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Concerned mother~

Are you a registered sex offender? You sound like one. Please stay on the east coast and dont show your face in my state.

Concerned citizen for our children in Oregon State.

10:08 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Go to the following link to read the truth about this proposed law.

http://boards.courttv.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=253174

All of you are swimming in the shallow end. Enter the deep end to see the underlying problems.

End result of this proposed law - children placed at greater risks.

One should not allow emotions to be a decisive action. Put aside your emotions and examine the proposed law intelligently.

12:10 PM  
Blogger Admin said...

Concerned said...
"How does Steve Groene feel about your naming this after his son? You don't know, because you didn't seek or obtain his permission."

Apparently that theory has been blown right out of the pond! As you can see from the latest post the Groene's have given their endorsement.

Concerned said... I had hoped I could get behind an organization like yours with my full support. I can't do that, not when your organization has so little heart, and for all the wrong reasons."

You are a vile, venom spewing old hag. WA doesn't give a rats rear-end about you - you are NOT a voter in this state, no one here needs to justify anything to you! These people are trying to effect change. You on the other hand affect nothing.

Concerned said... [...]you pat yourself on the back on crime forums and expect us to believe it"

Couldn't have made a better statement about you if I tried Concerned! You pat yourself on the back in a particular crime forum regularly and then last night you spew this vile piece of venom with an expectation that readers will think that YOU have this family's and child's best interest at heart. Unfortunately it bit you in the bottom didn't it? You are exposed as the nutty Nellie that you are!

People aren't as stupid as you would like to think that they are. You can try and play with perceptions by doing the twist with wording in an effort to satisfy your agenda, but in the end you're exposed for the tired old hag that your are!

This is a fantastic piece of work done by people who REALLY care and REALLY want to try to make things better for the people living around them. KUDOS to them!!

For you Concerned I suggest you put down the vodka, loosen your hair net and slowly back away from the keyboard!

12:24 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Richard said...
Go to the following link to read the truth about this proposed law.

http://boards.courttv.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=253174

All of you are swimming in the shallow end. Enter the deep end to see the underlying problems.

End result of this proposed law - children placed at greater risks.

One should not allow emotions to be a decisive action. Put aside your emotions and examine the proposed law intelligently"


Richard you're in Canada. Why do you insist on interfering in something that has nothing to do with your country! Isn't there some thing positive you can do on your own turf instead of screwing with other people in another country?

12:26 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Richard,

That's funny because you statement of, "All of you swimming in the shallow end" is an emotional response from you.

You obviously lack understanding and the fact that you get your news and facts from chat boards shows how reliable the foundations of your conclusions really are.

Very interesting

12:29 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

5:03 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This is great. Richard Olsen is here to spread his droppings around the 'net a little more.
:::plop:::

Holier-than-though comments directed at anyone who claims to be concerned about this case. :::plop:::

Always backed up by a "I will not address this anymore," wants-the-last-word comment. But oh, he will be back. :::plop::: THAT we can count on.

This is the man who called the www.shastaanddylan.com memorial "disgusting" on the justice posse forums! He was sent packing from there in good time.

This is the man who has gone from website to website proclaiming that anyone who dscusses Dylan as a "victim" is wrong, and only he is right, for making a tacky website calling Dylan a "fallen hero."

Richard, you make me ill. You have been stinking up the internet forums concerned with this case since July and you need to sit back and consider your approach, at the least.

WHY is it that you are regarded the same way in each forum where you spew your tripe? Can thousands of people be wrong? or... or is it YOU who is wrong, Richard?

Blah Blah Blah. You sound like a pedophile yourself in some of your posts. Next time, make a Barney website with colored balloons, EHH?

Go complain about victims on the Homolka-Bernardo message boards in your own country: Canada.

Leave these United States citizens of the State of Washington the hell ALONE!

8:41 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

9:57 PM  
Blogger Mike Schuler said...

Okay,... you're against Dylan's Law, because you fear that sex offenders will migrate to your country? Well,... you could enact your own Dylan's Law, and then they would have no reason to go to your country.

If we make our country less attractive to sex offenders, and your country becomes more attractive to sex offenders, how are we to blame for that? We don't control your country,... you do. Maybe you should get a jump on things, and make your country less attractive to sex offenders as well.

11:14 PM  
Blogger Admin said...

The ability of undesirables to cross boarders from one country to another is a totally different issue. That is a Homeland Security issue.

11:15 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

2:17 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

7:09 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I did NOT post the post above from 'Concerned'.

Blogowner: please check the IP addresses and post your confirmation that I did not post it. Also please post the first numbers of both IP addresses to show the states the posters are in. I, and others, would be interested to see the state the 'Concerned' poster lives in.

Also, please note that Blogspot can check the system records to the IP addresses to confirm that I did not post it.

I would like to state once more that I am very much in support of the one strike law, and have been since years before this case. In the Cellar forum I sent Mike a message thanking him for all his hard work on it. Perhaps he or the Capt would have the integrity to confirm this?

It's odd that of the several people who posted negative comments in that very same thread in WS, that I'm the only one being attacked.

You all better be careful - people notice that you all only attack, troll and flame the same few people, even though many others express the same thoughts and questions.

People also notice that I can go weeks without posting in WS but as soon as I do, that one of you immediately pops in to twist around what I say and slam me.

I could post "Good Morning" and one of you trolls would jump in to twist it to "Go to Hell", then post all over the internet that I had said "Go to Hell".

I've even experimented with friends. They take something I posted that you all trolled and flamed me for, they post the exact same thing -- copy and paste -- and none you say a peep. Odd.

It's beyond shameful what you all are doing to the Groene family and to the memory of the Groenes and Mark McKenzie who were tortured and slaughtered so horribly.

7:11 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

8:29 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

8:35 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am the blog bouncer and your comments were deleted as innappropriate for the context of this blog.

Do not complain that your Freedom of Speech rights have been abused because they haven't! I am merely enforcing CFAOSL's Freedom of Association rights!

This is not the forum for arguing about issues that have nothing to do with CFAOSL and the wonderful work they are doing.

We do appreciate people's comments, but not abusive comments. If you want to fight amongst yourselves create your own blog for that type of communication.

CFAOSL does not want to be involved with anything other than getting a OSL passed in Washington state. Please support us in that and if you don't go somewhere else!

File your own initiative that supports child molestors and rapists and second chances!

Thank you!

Have a nice day. BB

10:04 AM  
Blogger Dulcinea said...

It will be a great day when we no longer have to fight for any law named after a child. Perhaps the original poster should have asked how the Groenes felt about having their family members raped and slaughtered.

Don't let the bastards and pedophile-apologists get you down. You're doing good work, here, and I can't wait until it's on the books in all 50 states.

Thanks for speaking up for those who can't speak up for themselves.

12:36 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

just a few years ago when i was 12, i was violently sexually abused by a 22 year old guy....i was utterly embarrased and terrified to say anything because i knew he would beat me and rape me again if he found out. I told the police and a social worker and they recorded it, but they said that i had to testify in order for him to be properly prosecuted. I was very, very uncomfortable with this. I, embarrased and scared to death, had to sit in front of a room full of faces staring at me, had to tell all these people i didnt know all of the gory details. I was treated like my pain was an exibit, i couldnt stop crying, and i couldnt even get all the words out because i was so scared of him, and i knew he could hear it all..I entered that court room with a recorded testimony of 21 counts of rape sodomy, and a few counts of assault, but because i was so embarrased, traumatized, and afraid, i froze and couldnt hardly talk. He walked out of there with 3 counts of having sex with a minor, and 90 days in jail, all because i could not face all of those hard, blank faces, i was a terrified child, and i had to tell all of those empty faces my deep, embarrasing personal pain, and i couldnt tell it all. I saw him 3 months later, and i was utterly terrified. we had to move our family because i saw him around town all the time, and he was talking to my friends about how much of a bitch i was. to this day i know that if my recorded testimony was admitted, he would not be hurting other girls.

10:23 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

first of all, my name is Stephanie, im still really young i guess, but when I i was 12 i was vilently molested by a 22 year old guy that was a brother to one of my friends for 2 years. Its really hard for me to talk about this, but im glad someone is trying to help kids like me not to have to talk about that stuff to a bunch of other people I dont know. When i finally couldnt take it anymore, i went to a social worker and told the police, they recorded me and a nice social worker talked to me quite a few times and made me feel comfortble enough to talk about it . I was terified to say anything in the first place, cuz i knew i would get muteladed (I think thats what its called) or raped again. When the time came to go to court, they told me that i had to testify if i wanted him to go to jail, i didnt want to, i was really scared and really embarrased to tell anybody about all the stuff he did to me and my body. When i entered that court room, i had already testifide to 21 counts of rape and sodomy, and a couple of counts of battirey. I was so scared that the whole time i cried and shook and didnt even look up, i tried to talk but i was so scared and embarrased to tell all those people about that sick stuff that nothing hardly came out, I coundnt think, i tried to talk, but i only got out a few words. i was so scared, i hated having to tell all those people i never met about the sick stuff my about my body and about stuff i knew i would normally get beat over, i couldnt say it when i knew he could hear me, and all those people i didnt know...and i knew he was right there, right there in the other room, listening to me tell the secrets he told me he would do all sorts of things if i ever told, i was so scared, i thought he would run in and kill me, i got dizzy and had to be helped off the chair, and i went and threw up. In the end he only got 3 counts because i just couldnt do it, i couldnt say all the stuff i told the social worker to all those people staring at me that i didnt know, i was so scared. He got 90 days in jail, and a couple of years of paroll..after he got out, i saw him around town all the time...he would tell my friends i was a whore and a bitch, and we finally moved a little later. I hope to God no kid ever has to go through that, i was more scared and embarrased and humeliated then i have ever been in my life ever, and i still have nightmares about those empty faces staring right into me and hearing all that personal stuff about me and my body. i tried killing myself after that, and had to go the the hospital, I couldnt get their faces staring at me and hearing my sick words out of my head. I think it will be good if this law is passed, i never want to ever see anyone go through that ever again. i always thought the court was suposed to protect you, not make you feel humeliated and scared and then make all that pain for nothing because i was to scarred to talk in front of all those strangers. I will never forget that day., and i never want to see anyone else have to do that, cuz they will have the same nightmares i do.

1:30 PM  

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